Transition Your SEO Strategy Smoothly to Rank #1 on Google AND ChatGPT

Date: 05:00 PM, 03 September 2025  -  06:00 PM, 03 September 2025 ((GMT+01:00) Amsterdam, Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna)

158 Entrepreneur Organization members from all over the world registered for this event

MyEO (Entrepreneur Organization) online event

EVENT CHAMPION – Jason Barnard – Entrepreneur Organization, Paris (Europe) Chapter

A strategic guide for entrepreneurs to reclaim revenue from traditional and AI-driven search and lead their teams with confidence in the new landscape of AI Assistive Engines.

Is your organic traffic from Google in a slow, steady decline? Have you poured resources into an SEO strategy, and you are now seeing diminishing returns?

You’re not alone. The ground is shifting. The rise of AI Assistants like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google’s own AI Mode has fundamentally changed how your customers find information. The old playbook isn’t enough anymore.

But here’s the critical truth: Your investment in SEO is not obsolete. It’s the foundation for your next evolution.

The challenge isn’t to abandon SEO; it’s to expand it. It’s time to transition from Search Engine Optimization (SEO) to Generative Engine Optimization (also known as AI Assistive Engine Optimization).

Join us for a transformative 40-minute webinar that cuts through the noise and provides a clear, actionable roadmap for smart entrepreneurs to navigate this new era. This isn’t just theory; it’s a strategy built on massive, real-world data.

About Your Expert, Jason Barnard:

Your guide for this transition is Jason Barnard, an SEO veteran with 27 years of experience in the digital landscape. His company, Kalicube, has been tracking how Google and AI understand brands since 2015, amassing 9.4 billion data points across 70 million brands, including detailed entity data on over 1 million entrepreneurs – data that powers Kalicube’s proprietary tech stack, KaliNexus™.

In this session, you will discover:

• The Big Picture: Understand the fundamental shift from user search behavior (SEO) to user-AI dialogue (GEO) and what it means for your business.
• The GEO Framework: Learn how to adapt your digital PR, content creation, and technical SEO to become a primary, citable source for AI Assistive engines.
• Winning on All Fronts: Uncover data-backed strategies to ensure your brand is visible on traditional Google Search and as a cited source in ChatGPT, Perplexity, Copilot, and Google AI Overviews.
• Leading Your Team: Get a clear framework to guide your marketing and SEO teams, align their efforts, and equip them with the skills they need to succeed in 2026 and beyond.

This webinar is for you if:

• Your company has an SEO strategy (even if it isn’t very developed or successful).
• You’ve noticed a decline in your organic traffic from Google.
• You’re not seeing a corresponding uptick in traffic from CHatGPT and other AI tools and want to know why.
• You need a clear, high-level strategy to guide your team without getting lost in the technical weeds.

Make the most of what you are already doing in SEO and segué smoothly and successfully into the AI era : 

Learn how to evolve your strategy and turn the HUGE market shift to AI Assistive Engines into your greatest competitive advantage.

Duration: 40 minutes + Live Q&A

Resources from the event

• The Slides from Transition Your SEO Strategy Smoothly to Rank #1 on Google AND ChatGPT
• The Recording of Transition Your SEO Strategy Smoothly to Rank #1 on Google AND ChatGPT
• LLMTel Audit: See if you appear in LLM / AI Search.
• AI Audit: the opinion of AI about your personal brand / your corporate brand 
• Free Downloads & Guides so you can DIY you Transition Your SEO Strategy Smoothly to Rank #1 on Google AND ChatGPT

Why this event matters for entrepreneurs in 2025 and beyond

Transcript of Transition Your SEO Strategy Smoothly to Rank #1 on Google AND ChatGPT

Date: 05:00 PM, 03 September 2025  -  06:00 PM, 03 September 2025 ((GMT+01:00) Amsterdam, Berlin, Bern, Rome, Stockholm, Vienna)

Dave Burnett from AOK Marketing moderated the event

[00:00:00] Jason Barnard: Dave is a wonderful guy. I’ve actually only known you for about 3-4 weeks maybe. It seems like longer than that somehow. But that’s how long it does, doesn’t it? And Dave and I have a lot in common. We’ve got a I think a very similar view of where the world is going in terms of AI assistive engine optimization and generative engine optimization. So I’ll start introducing myself. I’m Jason Barnard. I’m the founder and CEO of Kalicube. I’ve been doing SEO since 1998, the year Google was incorporated. So, I’ve seen it all, been there, done that, messed it up, fixed it, found a solution, found the way to tank my rankings from one week to the next. And today I’m going to be talking about transitioning your SEO strategy smoothly to rank number one on Google and Chat GPT and Perplexity and Microsoft Copilot.

(general chatter)

[00:01:13] Jason Barnard: So, if you want to scan that QR code or ask chat GPT who I am, that’s what we do is we make sure that ChatGPT, Google, Perplexity and Bing, all describe me and my company and our clients companies the way they want. And Dave Burnett is the moderator, President and CEO of AOK Marketing. He’ll manage the questions you ask in the chat. So, please ask anything you want and we’ll come to that at the end. Now, it’s going to go quickly. And one thing I wanted to say is in the innovation adoption life cycle, we are the early adopters and I congratulate everybody who’s here for being here because you’re facing up to the fact that the world is changing and you’re adopting the new strategies and the new approaches, which is brilliant. And one thing I wanted to say is this presentation is for businesses selling services and products and it’s not for content publishers or ad revenue models. Trying to solve the SEO problem for content publishers and ad revenue models is outside my scope of work. The AI is eating up the content and if you’re living off your content as the value proposition, as the money maker, you’re going to be struggling and I don’t have a solution for you today. The other thing is all these slides are AI generated. I was prioritizing content over polish. And they’re designed to be self-explanatory, lots of text, and I’ll share the slide deck afterwards. So that you will be able to watch the video and use the slide deck as a memory jogger. So the problem right now is your investment is no longer paying off. Everybody’s having the problem of declining traffic from Google, diminishing returns in their investment and the fact that the rules keep changing and that’s been since ChatGPT came on board a couple of years ago. So you’re not alone. Everybody’s struggling with this. It’s absolutely not unique for you and I’m here to help everybody to evolve from SEO to GEO. And this is a presentation for leadership. There’ll be some technical explanations, but I won’t go too deep. And the idea is to give you an overview so that you can help your teams to fight this new battle.

[00:03:02] Jason Barnard: I use the term AI Assistive Engine Optimization rather than Generative Engine Optimization because Generative Engine Optimization is talking about what the machine does in terms of how it creates the content. But AI Assistive Engine Optimization describes both what it does and how it helps people. And that’s the plan for today. Six steps. Current state of search, technology behind AI assistive engines. They’re all the same. Optimizing for the web index, long-term strategy, team conversations you can have after this webinar. And then pitfalls you can avoid, which is just a huge list which I won’t go through because it’s too long. So the current state of search, it’s evolving and brand is the centerpiece. It’s everything. Your company brand, your leadership’s personal brands, and your product and services brand, they all need to be built. They all are central to your new GEO AI assist of engine strategy. And at Kalicube, we’ve been studying this since 2015. We’ve got 9.4 billion data points and those data points prove that brand is absolutely the key to this whole thing. And I built Kalicube Pro, which is our SaaS platform myself. I’m a bit of a geek behind the scenes and I hope I don’t get too geeky today. This is the reality and I think I keep losing sight of it. Google is still 91%. It’s still 14 billion searches a day. And ChatGPT I was generous with what I counted as a search against a helpful query of mind of brainstorming and ChatGPT at best right now in search is as big as Bing and most of us have ignored Bing for the last 15 years. So, it is the opportunity, but it isn’t as big as sometimes I tend to think and I think a lot of other people tend to think. And Google is still 91% and we can see further down in these slides how you can take advantage of that in terms of working towards what I call the Algorithmic Trinity which we’ll come to through Google results today. The other thing there’s some we’ve been looking into direct traffic and we have a client plus as we’ve seen that 10% of direct traffic is misappropriated by Google Analytics and could very well be from AI sources. The figure is probably very different for you.

[00:05:49] Jason Barnard: This is the number that we found. And 30% of ChatGPT activity is not search information retrieval related. And as I said that’s an underestimation I think. So it’s a slow shift of views of behavior from keywords to complex natural language conversations with the machine. And the important shift isn’t necessarily just about Google. It’s about all of these different engines that are trying to take over or trying to take over the space or taking over the research space and the search space. I call it research. And that’s going away from things like best CRM for startups that we don’t tend to ask the AI we’re more likely to ask something like I’m a B2B SAS founder with a 10-person remote team. We need a CRM that integrates with Slack and has simpler UI. What’s my best option? And the AI will give one single definitive answer. And as we see, what it will do is guide the person down the the funnel, the acquisition funnel. So it changes everything. We’re looking to be visible as a brand and not as a website. And we’re looking to be the recommended solution for what we call at the bottom of the funnel the Perfect Click. This is what the funnel looks like. Broad discussion. What does the CRM should I use? Somebody might start on ChatGPT with that. Then what’s your business size? What’s your budget? All these qualifying questions. Then we get to the option comparison. So that’s awareness stage. Then we get to the consideration stage comparison based on your needs. These are the three SAS platforms that I recommend for example. And your name needs to be on there. You need to be in the best of list. That’s the equivalent of ranking in AI and then the decision time is when push comes to shove given what you know about me from this conversation which one should I choose and the machine becomes a recommendation engine and says I recommend this solution to you and in that case as a business you need to be that single click, Perfect Click recommendation. So traditional goal always to rank pages we need to carry on doing that because search results is still incredibly important to the overall ecosystem that AI assistant engines use.

[00:08:26] Jason Barnard: We now need to evolve towards a place where your brand becomes the primary citable source of truth for AI assistance. What we call at Kalicube being top of algorithmic mind all the way down the AI acquisition funnel. So top of mind is what you want from your audience. You want the AI to be thinking of you all the way down the conversation that it’s having through that conversation that acquisition funnel. And the technology behind the AI assistive engines, the data and the mechanisms powering this new AI search paradigm that’s bit AI, but there’s only three Large Language Model chatbots and that’s what allows it to have a conversation with people and it has pre-existing knowledge that it uses to answer some questions and it can have a simple conversation about Napoleon Bonapart. It will know about Napoleon Bonapart. It doesn’t know necessarily about your business. The Knowledge Graph. That’s where it gets its factchecking from. When an LLM hallucinates, what Google and the others are trying to do is put a Knowledge Graph behind it, which is a machine readable encyclopedia where it can check its facts. Google has a Knowledge Graph for 53 billion entities, people, companies, music, albums, products, films, everything you can think of. And it uses that to fact check.

[00:09:59] Jason Barnard: And it was using it in AI overviews a few months ago it was showing it and it stopped now showing that fact-checking explicitly but we know they are fact-checking when they’re doing the Large Language Model analysis then we have the search results which are the live real time search results from Google, Bing and Perplexity which supplement the Large Language Model so it knows about Napoleon Bonapart but it doesn’t know about Jorge Perez for example and it will go to the search results to find information about something niche that it doesn’t know about or something new like the his football scores and it will use the Knowledge Graph to fact check if it can who is Horge Perez sorry you just happen to be on my screen so I thought I’d use you as an example and there’s a note there with ChatGPT user crawl when you’re using ChatGPT sometimes it will go and crawl web pages for you to give you the answer and you might think in that case I don’t need anything to do with the web index which is what we’re going to be talking about later , but you do because if you’re not in the web index you can’t be crawled by ChatGPT in those circumstances. So, as you will see over the next few slides, the web index becomes the single most important thing. And so, SEO is not dead. On the left, the web index, it’s the primary data source for the LLM, which makes the conversation, the search results, which brings up the unknown information that the LLM doesn’t have, and the Knowledge Graph, which is fact-checking. They all use the web index to fill up their data sources. Then those three AI interpretation layers come together to build the AI Assistive Engine answers and conversation and the AI Assistive Answers and conversation bring people down the user journey from awareness to consideration to what we call the Perfect Click at the moment of decision where the AI Assistive Engine recommends you. So that web index is the single most important thing. Now the good news, we’re going to go off track a little bit here is that all of this can be seen in Google today. Google is still 91 %. So the huge opportunities in Google today that will help you prepare for the AI era that’s just started.

[00:12:28] Jason Barnard: The 91% of searches every day are Google and you can see the Knowledge Graph number one in our Algorithmic Trinity is the Knowledge Panel on the left hand side there and best of lists on the right hand side. So you cannot have a Knowledge Panel if you are not in the Knowledge Graph and you cannot be in the best of list if you do not have a Knowledge Panel and in the Knowledge Graph. So this is a way that you can demonstrate success of being understood in the factchecking machine readable encyclopedia that is the Knowledge Graph. Number two, sorry, I’ve got two slides of the same thing. Entity boxes as well. Incredibly important. If you search for top10 HR companies in the world, you will get a people also search for at the bottom. Those people also search for are from the Knowledge Graph. Next, we’ve got AI mode and AI overviews are being driven by Google’s LLM, Gemini. So, there’s another way that you can leverage your mastery of the Large Language Models in today’s search in that 91% that Google still owns. And search results still incredibly important. People haven’t gone from search to LLMs overnight as some people were afraid. Depends on your audience, depends on their location, but certainly search is still the major way that people find things. So, you can leverage the images, you can leverage the blue links and the descriptions. You can leverage the top stories. You can leverage the videos. You can leverage all of those SER features that already existed and you’re still hitting probably 91% of your market. Some exceptions. Gen Zed is probably one exception, but certainly people who are not incredibly techsavvy are still going to be using Google a lot. So consider where your audience is, what the dominant engine is there, and how old they are, and how techsavvy they are. So we need to optimize for the web web index because all of the three, the Knowledge Graph machine readable encyclopedia, the Large Language Model chat bots that allow for that conversation and the search results that allow for that fresh information get their information from the web index.

[00:14:49] Jason Barnard: The web index is the data source we need to focus on and this is going to be fairly traditional SEO except it’s not just your website. It’s your entire digital footprint of looking at and you need to use your website number one to supply the content about you from you but number two to link out to all of the resources where you are on YouTube, on LinkedIn, on Crunchbase, on media sites, on Instagram, on Facebook, where you are standing where your audience is looking demonstrating your authority and your credibility to that audience and inviting them down the funnel which is just good digital marketing. So all of that digital marketing you’re already doing you just need to make sure that the machines understand that it’s you and make sure they understand that you are satisfying the subset of their users who are your audience in the places they’re standing on YouTube, on LinkedIn, on Crunchbase, on media sites and so on and so forth. Use your website as the central hub that links out to all of these resources so these machines can bring all of that together in their brains and understand A. How good you are, B. Which content belongs to you, and C. can deliver that content where whether it’s on YouTube, on LinkedIn, on Instagram or on Crunchbase to the subset of their users who are your audience when you are a relevant answer solution for them. Now, the foundation for every algorithm, I was talking about this with Dave the other day and he really liked Tasty, so I thought I’d keep it in. You need to make your entire digital footprint on and off-site content. And I can’t insist enough on that. Your website is the hub and the rest of it is your digital footprint. You need that hub to be very clear about what is you and what isn’t my exclusion. You need to make your content friction free for the bots to gather an index. You need to make it tasty for the algorithms and you need to make it organized for the engines whether it’s direct or indirect delivery. And I mean by direct and indirect delivery whether you get that link or whether it’s from the Large Language Model using your content and hopefully citing your brand.

[00:17:23] Jason Barnard: And that’s a huge trick we need to pull off is when an LLM uses our content, it generally doesn’t site the brand. And something we’re trying, we’re working on right now at Kalicube, we haven’t finalized the solution, but we’re pretty close. How do we get the AI to site your brand top of funnel? How do we get it to site your brand when it’s using your content and your concepts in particular? And part of that is inventing your own concepts, but that’s a story for another day. When I say friction free for the bots, one really important thing is WordPress. Now, I don’t particularly like WordPress, but WordPress is 30% of the web and Fabric Canel who is Mr. Bingbot who has been making Microsoft Bing the bot since its inception pointed out to me that friction is the biggest problem for the bot. If it comes up to a website doesn’t recognize the coding it will stop and think. If it’s WordPress it doesn’t stop and think. If you’re using Divi and Elementor because it breaks the HTML 5 that WordPress natively has, it will stop and think again. If your website in WordPress doesn’t use Gutenberg blocks, it will stop and think again. So ideally, the the least friction is WordPress with a simple theme that doesn’t break the core of WordPress and use Gutenberg blocks. I’m not saying you have to move to WordPress. I’m saying that’s the most frictionless solution. Shopify would be another example. of a very popular CMS. So the more popular, the less friction, the more standard, the less friction. And then you need to figure out the balance between standardization and exactly what you need to achieve with your website for your users. The least friction possible, make it most tasty for the algorithm. That means writing great copy. It means using headings correctly. It means using alt tags in your images correctly. It means using schema marku because it makes it more tasty, more understandable. And then you need to organize your digital footprint for the engines. And that’s your entire digital footprint including your website. And on your web pages and indeed across your digital footprint, think passage level, not page level.

[00:20:12] Jason Barnard: So you’ve got the website, you’ve got the categories, you’ve got the pages, but Google, Bing, ChatGPT, Perplexity, all use passages from your pages. And a passage is an identifiable chunk. Bing calls them chunks. Google calls them passages. So if the bot can break your content in your page into chunks, it will say this is a video and it’s about XYZ. This is a piece of text. It’s about ABC. This is an image that shows DEF. And it annotates that content when it puts it in the index. It puts it in the index as a passage, as a chunk, and it annotates it with a little post-it. And it says what it thinks is in that piece of content and how confident it is in that annotation. All of the algorithms use the annotations and not the content in order to select what they’re going to use. So the content itself is actually less important than the annotations you can get the bot to add to the content. So every time you’re writing a chunk of content, a heading with a paragraph, an image, a video, think about how is the bot when it reads this going to understand this within the context of the page, the category in the website and be able to accurately and confidently annotate it. And that’s why I talked about gutenburg blocks. If you’re using WordPress, you know that they’re blocks that are easy to pull in and push to take out and put in. And that’s what the bot likes. It likes things broken down into chunks. There’s lots of articles there. So, I’ll share this deck and it will have those links in. And that explains everything I’ve just told you in much more detail. Two on Search Engine Land and two from Kalicube, either written by myself or my team. You can take a screenshot if you want to type the URLs, but I’ll share this the slide deck with everybody who signed up. We have your emails. Long-term strategy, developing a sustainable plan for future AIEO. This is for leadership and at Kalicube, this is what we’ve done. It’s called The Kalicube Process™. Pillar one is Understandability. Does the AI understand who you are, what you offer, and to whom, who your audience is. Pillar two, Credibility. Does the AI believe you are the most trustworthy solution in market?

[00:22:58] Jason Barnard: Number three, Deliverability. Does the AI have the content to deliver you to the subset of its users who are your audience? And if you think about it like that, you can build from Understandability to Credibility to Deliverability and build a hugely successful strategy. Now, I did this visual yesterday. In fact, my ex-wife did it and nobody understands it. But the idea is we have AI needs Deliverability, Credibility, Understandability, but in reverse order. You get control, influence, and visibility. And the funnel looks like that. Whether you talk about TOFU, MOFU, BOFU or Decide, Consider, Aware. If the machine has Understandability, you have control of your brand narrative and you’re going to nail the bottom of funnel or the decision moment when somebody searches your brand. If the machines believe you to be credible, you have influence within the brain of that machine and its users. And you’re going to nail the best of in MOFU and in consideration when people are making those comparison searches and queries. If the machine is able to deliver you to the subset of its users who are your audience, you get visibility and that means at the top of the funnel at the Awareness Stage people are going to be seeing you in Google and AI now I hope that’s more clear. Understandability. Before the AI trusts what you say ,it must first understand who you are. You need to engineer your brand leadership and offers across your entire webwide digital footprint as clear unambiguous entities in the AI’s mind and the KPI for that is an accurate BOFU and that’s your Brand SERP the search engine results page on Google for your brand name. A Knowledge Panel on Google I showed you that earlier and an AI resume which is what the AI says when you ask ,who is Jorge Perez ,what is Kalicube ,who is Dave Burnett that’s your AI resume, the answer the ChatGPT gives. Number two, Credibility for AI to recommend you it must believe you’re the most credible solution. You need to communicate your credibility signals. Google calls them EEAT, expertise, experience, authoritiveness, and trustworthiness. Now, often we think of links, which is still great, but reviews, mentions, qualifications, memberships.

[00:25:52] Jason Barnard: You need to communicate that. You need to leverage all of that authority that you have and your company has that Google doesn’t necessarily understand, that ChatGPT doesn’t necessarily understand, and that isn’t communicated by links. And one of the metrics we’ve been playing at Kalicube is communicating who we’ve worked with, which companies we’ve worked with. So, I’ve worked with Disney, I’ve worked with Danon, I’ve worked with ITV Studios, and I’ve leveraged that into the AI, and they can now say if you say who was Jason Bernard worked with, it will list those companies. That’s huge credibility for me. And the KPI there is that you appear in answers, the best solution provider for X in location Y. Any search middle of the funnel consideration stage of the algorithmic acquisition funnel. So the KPI for credibility is, in AI do you appear in those best solution provider for X in location Y, or on Google the fact that your Brand SERP the search engine results page for your brand is incredibly positive accurate and convincing and it becomes your Google Business Card where somebody who’s bottom of funnel searching your brand name your personal name or your corporate name thinks that’s the decision maker for me. I’ve gone from almost signing to being sure that I’m going to sign. And then Deliverability. The concept is for AI to introduce you to the conversation. It must have the content from you that it can deliver. You need to create content that the AI can deliver to your audience. Text, video, images, and audio. It’s really important. The reason people call it Generative Engine Optimization is they’re generating from text, video, images, and audio from multiple sources. That’s called mum.. But always remember it’s at passage level. So it’s going to take a video from a web page and extract it from the web page and put a post it on that. It’s going to take an image from a web page and put a post it on that. It’s going to take audio from a web page and post it on that. And if you think Google and Bing and the AI aren’t analyzing videos and audios, I talked to Maz Merchant from Bing who’s the principal program manager for image and video and he said we analyze everything we find.

[00:28:22] Jason Barnard: Because we’re training the AI because we’re trying to get things to move forward. And if you’ve ever used Notebook LM, you’ll see how quickly it can extract the text from an audio or from a video. And it gives you an idea, a really clear idea of how easy it is for these machines to analyze that and extract the text. And a quick handy hint there for video and for audio, doing the transcript and correcting it by hand and adding it to the web page or adding it as captions is a hugely successful strategy because it adds confidence to the understanding in what’s in that video or what’s in that audio for the machine. And confidence is the single most important thing that most people ignore. The post-it that’s yellow because it’s not confident is always going to be beaten by the post-it that’s green because it is confident. So that transcript will get you the green post-it instead of the yellow one. And the KPI is that you’re getting more traffic from other sources. So if you are doing a great job, you’re going to get more traffic by building up your digital ecosystem across LinkedIn and the other social media profiles and wherever else you are standing where your audience is looking. You’ll get into the entity list that I showed you earlier in Google Search. You’ll get increased visibility in the top of the funnel topic relevant search engine results and in the AI engine outputs. And what we find at Kalicube is when I ask people on calls, how did you find us? They say, oh, I found you absolutely everywhere and everywhere I was researching this topic, I keep seeing you and this red shirt has been a huge bonus for me for that. That visual clue has been super helpful and I didn’t realize quite how helpful until recently. And so the framework in action is that you build Understandability top left, you then build Credibility, Deliverability, and it continues in reinforcement. And you need to keep building them all together. As the algorithms change, as you change, as your market change, you’re constantly building on Understandability. Does the machine understand who you are, what you do, who you serve? Credibility. Does it believe you to be the best in market? Deliverability.

[00:30:57] Jason Barnard: Does it have the content that will allow it to deliver you to the subset of its users who are your audience? So, it’s an ongoing continuous program and you should start with these conversations. They are tiny and I know you can’t read them but these are really helpful questions. What single web page for Understandability and it’s going to be divided into Understandability, Cedibility, Deliverability. What single web page have we designed as our official entity home and Is every sentence on it crafted to be the definitive source of truth about the for the algorithms? Additionally, you can ask and do we link out from that Entity Home to every single profile we have and back from every profile to that Entity Home because that creates what we call the Infinite Loop of Self-Corroboration where the bot is going from your Entity Home, your About Page on your website out to a resource seeing the same message coming back to your Entity Home seeing the same message going out to a resource seeing the same message and so on and so forth. That’s how you build Understandability. Question two, how are we systematically ensuring that our entire digital ecosystem from social media profiles to press releases corroborates the core facts stated on our Entity Home? If we search our exact brand name right now, does the result our Google Business Card show a complete and accurate Knowledge Panel that proves Google has understood us? And in fact, you can add to that is our AI resume when you ask AI about us positive and accurate and start conversation there, because this is how the machines will understand you and they cannot understand you any other way. Right now your digital footprint is a mess. I guarantee it. I have never met anybody, any company or any person who has a clean clear digital footprint. And for companies it’s especially difficult because you have multiple employees over multiple years, opening multiple accounts adding different descriptions and that standardization has never been done through your company.

[00:33:23] Jason Barnard: And we systematically find that and the digital footprint cleanup optimization process is fundamentally important and your brand will not be correctly understood and will certainly not be confidently understood unless you do that. Number two, Credibility. What is our system for proving our credibility to algorithms and how we actively demonstrating our Notability, Experience, Expertise, Authoritiveness, Trustworthiness, and Transparency? Google talks about EEAT. I’ve added notability and transparency. AI doesn’t trust you if you’re not transparent. AI and Google will always prioritize notable entities. So, you need to make yourself as notable as possible. So, it’s not just your expertise, your experience, your authoritativeness, and your trustworthiness. It’s also your notability and your transparency. And particularly in, for example, the betting field or CBDFX or medicine, sometimes companies aren’t as transparent as they need to be, and it’s a huge struggle to build Understandability and Credibility. Next, an algorithm won’t take our word for our own expertise. What is our strategy for earning corroboration in addition to links from trusted third party sources that AI already respects? So, you’re probably already doing link building. You need to think about what are you doing in addition. It can be reviews. It can be leveraging qualifications of your lead leadership. For law firms, that’s hugely powerful. Your successes with your clients, All of that is credibility signals. If you’re a person, a book, writing a book is a huge credibility signal. Lastly, when a prospect is evaluating us and searches our name, does the left rail, the left hand side of our brand, the search engine results page for our brand, present a convincing and authoritative story that solidifies their choice? It should have a review site. It should have your social media, including probably Facebook, with the five stars. It should have Twitter or it could have Twitter. It can have videos, but it should all be positive, accurate, and convincing from top to bottom.

[00:35:58] Dave Burnett: Well Jason, if I could interrupt for just a quick second because there was a question around reviews. Does it matter where the reviews come from? Is Google the primary? What’s your thought on the review side of things?

[00:36:08] Jason Barnard: I had a really interesting experience with a client who had collected 30,000 reviews himself and it was having no effect. He then opened a Trust Pilot account. I’m not particularly saying Trustpilot is the best, but it is very big and very trusting. And he got 3,000 reviews on that in a year. And the reviews pages that he had on his website started to rank and the cumulative effect from our experience was significantly bigger than the 3,000 reviews he collected on Trustpilot. And my guess, my educated guess was Google didn’t believe him on his own good word, but as soon as it had Trustpilot to compare his 30,000 reviews to, it could see that it actually made sense and he wasn’t cheating.

[00:37:04] Dave Burnett: Perfect. Thanks. And there’s a few questions we’ll get to at the end. So, no problem. And we’re at 105 participants, so the 100 thing was no issue. So, carry on.

[00:37:12] Jason Barnard: Oh, there you go. So, I didn’t worry. I keep hearing people pop on and off.

[00:37:15] Dave Burnett: It’s good. Lots of people. So, we’ll get to that after. Thank you for everything.

[00:37:18] Jason Barnard: Thank you, Dave. That’s very encouraging. Key questions for leadership for Deliverability. What is our strategy for dominating top of funnel topic relevant searches so that our visibility in AI engines outputs increases month over month? Next question. How are we systematically working get our brand featured in Google’s Entity Lists for our core service and topics. And you can go back on the slide deck to see what the Entity Lists look like. What is our omnichannel plan to achieve true omnipresence so that our ideal prospect tells us I saw you everywhere when I was searching this and the explanations below tell you what that’s going to help you with in terms of your team. So these are questions you should be asking your team and sometimes they will have a plan, sometimes they won’t. Generally speaking, I find that teams don’t have a plan and that’s when you can start building your plan as a CEO. And there’s a free download for that, The Kalicube Process. It’s actually on the screen behind me, but it’s probably too small for you. And you can go to kalicube.com/guides, and that will work fine. There’s a whole explanation. It’s 60-page download. So, you got a limited window. In 24 months, two years, some people are saying the AI and Google will no longer need the web. That’s not going to be true because it will always need fresh up-to-date information and it will always need new information. It won’t have all the information of humankind simply because all of the information of humankind is not on the web. So although the door is closing fast, it won’t be completely closed. But your question today is how do I get into the algorithm’s brains at the start of the algorithmic blockchain? So think of Bitcoin. Get in at the beginning and you’re locked in. Get in now and you’re locked into their brains and you don’t need to worry about it so much because they’ll keep coming back to you for information because they already know and trust you. If you wait 24 months, you’re going to struggle to get in because they have no reason to come and see you. They have no reason to trust you.

[00:39:56] Jason Barnard: You’re going to be knocking at the door of a walled garden and that door will be guarded by AI and it won’t have a knocker. It won’t have a doorbell and the AI will not let you in unless it has a very good reason. So, the next two years are going to be critical and as I said earlier on at the beginning and you’re the innovators here. Early adopters, now is the time. We’ve got 24 months. Start now. So the 24 window starts now. If you’re part of that foundational data set that the AI and Google and Bing and ChatGPT and Perplexity trust today, you will be in their walled garden in the future in 24 months time. And then you’re in a super great position because everybody else will be knocking on the outside trying to get in and it will be very difficult for them. So you want to be boss of your planet in 24 months. So the first step after this is book the meetings for this week with your team to ask them those nine critical questions for the three pillars that will kick off your strategy. Listen for the gaps in what they say. Listen for the gaps in your current approach and start thinking about how you’re going to adapt it and develop your action plan based on those findings. And you would want also to sit down with your technical team, your development team, whoever that is, and start talking about how do I make the content frictionless? How do I make it tasty for the bots? How do I make the bots A. visit all of my website, B. take in every chunk, easily identifiable, easily taken into its individual chunk where it can annotate, create the post-it and mark the post-it high confidence green post-it and not midconfidence yellow post-it. That’s the technical team who will help you with that. So, start now, lead the change, get going. Watch this video again. Use the the slide deck to remind yourself of everything I said. There are links in there so you can click and learn more. And I’ve just gone through this at the end with some important things that I think need to be addressed. Link building. No PBN’s, that doesn’t work anymore. Volume link building not helpful. You need trustworthy corroborative links. Press releases for authority signals and entity corroboration.

[00:42:31] Jason Barnard: So you can do a press release because it helps reinforce the message you’re giving about yourself. And it’s fine to repeat yourself what it is you’re saying. Social media is all about brand engagement, credibility signals. That’s standing where your audience is looking, showing them you’re credible, inviting them down the funnel. The AI and Google see this and they will duplicate it. They will replicate it. If they see you serving your audience on your social media channels, they will see that you’re successful with that audience and they will tend to promote you. Don’t obsess about domain authority. It’s all now entity authority. Is your entity, your brand, your company, the people behind your company, are they understood by these AI algorithms? Keywords you need to write properly and If a semantic triple actually is really important and a semantic triple everybody talks about it and it sounds really geeky but it’s actually just subject verb object and you need to keep the subject the verb and the object as close together in the sentences as possible. So rather than saying Jason Barnard the marvelous chap from France who used to live in the UK is the founder of that amazing company in France Kalicube. You say Jason Barnard is the founder of Kalicube and he’s a wonderful chap who lives in France today. And you keep Jason Barnard is the founder of Kalicube. Close together. Subject Jason Barnard. Verb is the founder of Kalicube the object. Focus on branded queries. Branded queries are going to be incredibly important. And also the more an AI or Google sees a high volume of branded queries, the more it will trust you. Better keywords, throw them out. Thin content. You don’t need to worry about huge amounts of content. We’re talking about the 1500 words in an article minimum. You need to write articles for as much as is needed to solve the problem. So sometimes it be 1,500 words, sometimes it’ll be 50 words. So don’t worry about it as thin content. Thin content per se isn’t a problem as long as it solves a problem on your contact page. 50 words is going to be fine. That’s thin content.

[00:44:52] Jason Barnard: But Google and AI will still send people to your your contact page and they will then also use it to understand how people can contact you and provide it in their AI answers. Using anchors is actually really important to guide the bot and that’s a really good way to reduce friction is to give clear indications about what’s on the next page so the bot can understand and it’s more likely to visit it. JavaScript. Try to avoid it. Google and Bing have been incredibly kind to the entire community by digesting and figuring out how to render JavaScript. Chatbots can’t be bothered. They don’t have the resources. They don’t have the means to do it. So you need to think in terms of avoiding JavaScript as much as you can for the critical content that you want to communicate to the machines. Schema markup, you need to mirror what’s in the schema markup in the HTML. Now, if somebody comes to you and says, I’m going to charge you $40,000 to create schema markup for your website. If you’re not an e-commerce website, that’s probably not worth it because you can actually just add the content to the website itself in the HTML and the AI and Google Google will get it just as well. So for example, you can use ordered lists, you can use wiki boxes, you can use tables, and you can write clear content with clear semantic triples. So be wary of investing huge amounts in schema markup. I’m not saying schema markup isn’t worth it. I’m saying you need to be careful about wasting money on something that isn’t going to bring as much value as simply adding it to the HTML, which is much simpler. Don’t bother with an AMP website. That was an thing that Google really got into and has now pretty much dropped. Site maps, don’t make them over complicated. Keep internal linking simple. Page speed. Shaving 0.2 seconds off for ranking gains isn’t a thing and it hasn’t been for a long time. You need to make it fast enough for your human audience. And for me, for example, my human audience is entrepreneurs in the US, UK, and Australia. I don’t need the site be super fast because they’ve got, super fast internet on their phones, on their offices.

[00:47:32] Jason Barnard: I need it to be fast enough for them and fast enough not to cripple the bots, but then it has to be very slow to cripple a bot. Crawl budget. If you’ve got a site of less than a thousand pages, you can actually just rely on submitting through Search Console and IndexNow, which Bing introduced, and that will submit your pages to the box anyway. And the idea of crawl budget is specifically for big websites with a million pages where you’re trying to get all of them crawled in a reasonable order. So, if you’ve got a site of less than a thousand pages, Don’t fret about crawl budget too much or and if you got less than 200 pages or less than 100 pages, you can forget about it. It doesn’t matter. Core Web Vitals. It’s not a ranking factor, it doesn’t matter. It’s UX focused, hlp users. Give them a fast experience. So even if your site is slow, if you can load the main content quickly, they will have the impression that it’s fast. If your content moves as they’re trying to navigate the page, I was on a site earlier on and it was doing that and it was really frustrating. It’s just annoying, but it doesn’t change your ranking. And Redirects, obsessing about 301 redirect chains and 404s unless it’s really a problem for your users. Don’t worry about it too much for the bots. Try and keep your site clean, but don’t spend $10,000 fixing some 301 redirects and a few 404s. These are typically things that agencies will say is, “We’ve got your page speed or your core web titles or reduce your 301 redirects. So, pay us lots of money. And those are three typical things that SEO agencies can measure. So, it feels good and it looks good, but it doesn’t help. Putting content in HTML and making the crawling frictionless is what’s going to help. Making your content tasty is what’s going to help. Rewriting content to differentiate itself in a competitive market is a really good idea. Don’t worry about duplicated content for your bios and for your mentions. That’s actually a positive thing. The more the more it’s repeated systematically, the better the confidence in that information.

[00:50:09] Jason Barnard: Duplicate content for your Oh, and that’s a really good point is the old strategy used to be find a keyword, find the best ranking article and just write a better article. The problem with that is going to be that the AI will have the information so it has no need to come to you for the information. So, your better article will actually not serve you long term. So think about what the information gap you can fill. What does the the other article not cover that should be covered that would be helpful. So expand on it rather than rewrite it. Think about passages for bots. Don’t spam images because they analyze them. They know that you’re spamming. And think about your geo relevancy. Think about if you’re in the US, focus on the US and build your genuine local authority. Local being country, state, or town and then some freebies. We’ve got loads of downloads here. Please go to that kalicube.com/guides. And I’ve got a 13-point road map on search engine land that I wrote last year. That’s actually quite helpful, I think. There’s an Instruction Manual for Knowledge Panels. There’s how to write copy for SEO today, which is semantic triples and all that stuff. And it’s don’t know 20 pages. “Business Leaders Guide to Search and AI”. “Control Your Personal Brand in Search and AI”, “Control Your Corporate Brand in Search and AI”, and then there’s three audits which Dave has the LLM tell report which I really enjoyed, where you can see how well you appear in LLMs across. How many LLMs are there Dave there’s about hundred?

[00:52:16] Dave Burnett: We’ll there is, we’re just actually checking 17 of the largest so all the ones that you’ve heard of the DeepSeek, Claude, ChatGPT few others Lambda so we’ve got that as well. So this report that you’ve got here in terms of the actual audit is really interesting. I know a few of you have actually been beta testers for us. Dimma who’s my partner on this side of things is actually I think he’s on the call. Been amazing to be able to build something like this for everybody. So we can I don’t want to interfere with your presentation.

[00:52:40] Jason Barnard: No no results.

[00:52:42] Jason Barnard: Okay. Let me

[00:52:43] Jason Barnard: Sorry the one the one on the left ours is what does Google and AI say about your brand when you’re not in the room. It’s actually a critique of your digital footprint and that three-step process. So, it’s a breakdown of where you’re going right and wrong with Understandability, Credibility, Deliverability, and it’s free. And it will help you in that conversation you’re going to be having with your team. So, thank you so much. Now, it’s question time.

[00:53:13] Dave Burnett: Now, it is question time. Absolutely. So,let me just build on your presentation for one second here and show you a little bit because in our conversations, one of the things I wanted to make clear was you had talked about getting into the core knowledge of the LLMs versus LLM search. And so one of the ways that I think about it, and sorry, I should probably have said this earlier, Jason’s been doing SEO for almost 30 years. We’ve been doing it for almost 20 years. So we’re enjoying this side of things as things change and grow. But basically the way it works is there is the core knowledge base that Large Language Models have. And that is part of basically the way that they’re built. So they get trained up to a certain point. So for example up to October of 2024 is ChatGPT5. And then what happens is they spend the next few months training that, model tuning is what they call it. Training it to actually answer questions well and safe. And that’s why GPT5 was not released until the beginning of August, 7, 8, 9 months later because they teach it to actually be kind and nice and not teach you how to do all legal things. But what that means though is they have a fixed amount of data. So the 24 months that Jason was talking about earlier is super important because getting into that core knowledge right now the machines are training GPT6, they’re training GPT7, Gemini 3. All of that training is happening right now. So, the sooner you get on this and the sooner you start doing this, the better the odds are that you will be shown in the results. So, what I wanted to do here was just show you 10 seconds in terms of what that matters in our tool. So, we built this basically I ran a report for the Canadian Marketing Association. I don’t know if you can tell by my accent. Jason’s based on out of the background is the UK out of France. I’m actually based out of Toronto. And so, what we did was we built this tool that shows you how many of the large language models actually actually recognize your entity and then you can ask questions. This case I did for the Canadian Marketing Association and then the two questions I asked were how can I get certified as a professional marketer and then how can I meet senior marketing professionals. What we then have is a competitor section. You can see the Canadian marketing Association is ranked here but then there’s also the American marketing association. But the important thing is here at the top what entities recognize this. So, are you in the base knowledge? And you can see they are in the base knowledge for Claw, DeepSeek, all the different GPTs, GPT5, Gemini, you can see they’re in and where they aren’t is a couple of the meta, which is interesting. But then also Perplexity they are in, but then Qwen, which is one of the more fringe ones. So, this is where we have it. And then you can see where they’re mentioned or not mentioned in this report. and it’ll show like DeepSeek to become a certified marketer in Canada follow this approach and then it mentions them further down. So it’s really interesting to be able to see what it knows about you. So this is something

[00:57:38] Jason Barnard: And one of the problems is that you can’t actually see inside the machines. You can’t track ranking like you could with Google. And so you have to just identify the most relevant questions where you need to appear and understand that if you’re appearing for that you will appear for related questions. Arnold Repair has got a question. Arno, go ahead.

[00:57:56] Dave Burnett: I think you’re muted.

[00:57:58] Dave Burnett: Hi. Sorry.

[00:58:00] Arnold Repair: Thanks a lot first Jason. It was great. You talked about CMS and recommending WordPress. What about the new between brackets headless CMS? like Strappy Payload and and Contentful which are based on a new structure separating the back end and the front ends. Are they useful for the new GEO search or negative or

[00:58:26] Jason Barnard: really what is most common is always going to be most frictionless. So anything kind of new or out of the box sorry out of left out of left field is always going to be a problem for the bot. And it’s not a question that it won’t crawl. It just it creates friction. And my advice generally speaking is to reduce friction to an absolute minimum. So I can’t really answer that question incredibly clearly.

[00:58:56] Dave Burnett: Oh Jason, there was Sorry, Arno. Go ahead, please.

[00:59:00] Jason Barnard: No, go ahead.

[00:59:02] Dave Burnett: Thanks.

[00:59:02] Dave Burnett: I mean it was a technical question.

[00:59:06] Dave Burnett: And so no, Jason, I was going to say there was also a question similarly about Wix just in the questions from above.

[00:59:12] Jason Barnard: It’s super popular, so it isn’t going to create huge friction. I mean, I wouldn’t move from Wix to WordPress just because of that reduction in friction. I would focus on ensuring that my Wix website was built as a chunked with pages with chunks that are easy to identify, especially the headings, that the content writing is clear. And so focus on the on the on the layout of the web page to make sure that the chunks are easy to identify.

[00:59:51] Dave Burnett: And there’s also another one about Shopify, which I can partially answer is the platform important. You mentioned that earlier that it’s again a very popular platform so it shouldn’t have much resistance but the interesting thing is duplicate product content. So if you have a Nike running shoe a thousand other websites sell that same Nike running shoes. So there if you can do unique content unique descriptions there’s a few tools out there that do that kind of thing to create all of that unique information that’s certainly helpful as well. So Jason next question. Are AI created videos on a website okay with Google?

[01:00:51] Jason Barnard: The debate about whether or not you can create content with AI is kind of this huge thing of how naughty is it, but I mean SEOs have spent the last 20 30 years walking the line on what Google allows and what doesn’t it doesn’t allow. And a lot of the time Google’s statements about this are just marketing. They’re just trying to convince people to tell the line and do the fair things so they don’t have to fight it. spam and so on and so forth. So if if you have a real if you can add real value with AI video for your audience, do it. And I did an experiment a few weeks ago with an AI podcast to see what would happen. And it’s worked fine.

[01:01:46] Jason Barnard: So one question that got a couple of hearts here was If we have bandwidth to add one initiative to our current SEO strategy to get in front of the AI stuff, what should it be? I would I would say that the bandwidth would be sit down, figure out we have a process at Kalicube which is Claim, Frame and Prove. If you can understand what it is you’re claiming, who you are, what you do, who you serve and you can see how you can prove it. So Entity Home, About Page. Write very clearly who you are, what you do, who you serve. Starting with the most recent, going back to the past. Don’t start with we founded our company in 1996. That goes at the end because it’s the least important. The bot reads from top to bottom, most important to least important. You write who you are, what you do, who you serve, why you’re important on that web page. You make sure that same story is replicated across the entire digital footprint. And then you link from the Entity Home to all of those resources. And if possible, from those resources back to the Entity Home. That will build build Understandability and that will improve your it will tighten up the bottom of the funnel. So all those branded searches will look really good and the AI will recommend you when people are actually searching for you. And what we found at Kalicube is when you improve your entire digital footprint, you actually build or improve your digital marketing strategy. And Dave, we’ve been talking about this as doing the Understandability Phase™ alongside the other content marketing strategies that you’re implementing because as you go through your entire digital footprint, you’ll start to see where things are going well, where they’re going wrong, where you’re being coherent, where you’re being consistent, where you’re not. And so by doing that and doing that entire digital ecosystem cleanup and optimization, you will naturally number one get tighten up the bottom of the funnel on Google and on AI. You’ll tighten up the bottom of the funnel when you’re standing where your audience is looking on all of those different platforms. And you’ll get loads of insights as to where you’re going right and wrong with your digital strategy. That’s where I’d put my resources if I were to start tomorrow.

[01:04:14] Dave Burnett: And I think it’s important, I know you you haven’t said it, but that you do really good work with the individuals who are the CEOs, thought leaders. That’s that’s your primary focus in terms of the work that you do. And I don’t want to speak for you, but as my understanding that is the primary focus of what you do versus we we also work with the company side of things. So if you’re if you’re a thought leader, CEO, Jason’s your guy for sure. So just

[01:04:47] Jason Barnard: Which I mean the thing is that The Kalicube Process is universal and initially I thought I can serve companies, I can serve products, I can serve founders, I can serve artists, I can serve writers, and it was one of those horrible situations where you say I can help everybody and in fact what I’ve done is given the guides away for free so https://kalicube.com/guides so everybody can do it themselves and we want to help entrepreneurs who care about their personal brand who understand their personal brand is important for their their business Absolutely. Okay. Next question. Does being on Wikipedia help with geo? I mean, I can answer that. Yes, if you can get a Wikipedia page, absolutely it does help. One of the things is that these models are trained on Wikipedia and Reddit and all these big public databases of knowledge. So, if you have the ability to be able to have that, then absolutely. And Jason, I don’t know if there’s anything you want to add to that.

[01:05:54] Jason Barnard: No, I’d make a point. Number one is 99.99% of people and companies don’t deserve a Wikipedia page. And don’t waste money if you don’t deserve it. We recently had a client who insisted and they went to a specialist agency and the agency came back and said, “Number one, you don’t have enough articles. You’re not notable enough on enough notable platforms, but your industry doesn’t have enough articles on notable platforms to be notable enough for the industry. So sometimes you’re just in an industry that doesn’t have that notability. So even if you were famous within your industry, you’re not your industry isn’t big enough. So, Wikipedia is rare. It’s rare that somebody or a company deserves a Wikipedia page, and I’ve seen a lot of people waste money on it. You don’t need it for the AI to understand you. And you just said Reddit, Dave. Barrier to entry there is zero. Go for Reddit.

[01:07:01] Dave Burnett: Unless. Get Reddit famous. Why not? Right.

[01:07:05] Jason Barnard: Yep.

[01:07:06] Dave Burnett: Next question. For a product company, is there a specific goal we should aim for with Oh, and by the way, I’m sorry. I just want to pause for a second. We are at time, but we’re happy to continue on and answer questions. Jason, I’m assuming that’s good for you and anybody were welcome to join us for as long as you can stay. So, thank you very much for joining us on this. So, question for a product company, is there a specific goal we should aim for with conversions in the SEO GEO channel?

[01:07:44] Jason Barnard: I think that’s your question, Dave. You deal with companies.

[01:07:46] Dave Burnett: It is. It is. So, Jason talked a little bit about kind of the awareness journey and top of the funnel, middle of the funnel, bottom of the funnel. So, realistically, it depends on what you are ranking for and specific goals will depend on how you measure those conversions. Are you a B2B lead gen company? Are you an e-commerce company? How do you actually work with your conversions and what tools you’re using? So, it absolutely is important to track your conversions to make sure that you are in the know. associated with what is working, what isn’t. So yes, absolutely is. And in regards to a specific goal, you have to look at what your how your website is converting normally. What different things are your industry averages for conversion? And there’s a lot there’s a lot there when you get into conversion for sure. Next question. Okay. One of the takeaways is that a unique brand voice is not as important as being technical and clear and concise and if so, how does a brand stand out? Is this going to lead us all being a beige society?

[01:09:04] Jason Barnard: I would I would say the opposite. We we have a strategy at Kalicube where we’re building lexicons and what we find is that if we identify the words and the terms that a person uses and we get them to we have a factual definition, then we have their definition and then we have why their definition is important to their market or their audience over and above the factual definition. And what then happens is that you end up with a story that’s slightly different to everybody else. So it’s not beige. It’s got a character. And the AI actually recognizes authors by their fingerprint. And the fingerprint is the vocabulary. So if you use a text from one of my articles and say who wrote this, the AI will immediately identify me because of the vocabulary. So, I would say your brand voice is incredibly important. I would suggest building a lexicon for your company and it also helps you stay on brand voice. I’ve got 400 terms. Our clients generally have 20 to 50. I’ve gone a bit mad, but I found once you’ve built your lexicon, the lexicon starts building itself and it it kind of takes on a life of its own.

[01:10:25] Dave Burnett: You’re just you’re just making up your own English language. Do you know that’s what it silly?

[01:10:29] Jason Barnard: That’s right.

[01:10:30] Dave Burnett: Hand up. Sorry.

[01:10:33] Dave Burnett: Teresa,

[01:10:34] Teresa: Thank you so much for all the insights, Jason. I wanted to ask, do you think it’s worth it to invest in unique data or original research like to create better content for AI?

[01:10:48] Jason Barnard: Yeah. Okay.

[01:10:50] Dave Burnett: That’s because I liked it when you said tasty.

[01:10:52] Jason Barnard: Why would the machine come back to you in two years time if you’ve been supplying it with data it doesn’t have it will come back to you systematically because you that data is something that it can’t find for itself and it needs. So if you start now, drip feed original data build up the the confidence the machine it has in your authority and your trustworthiness and in two years time you’ll find that the machine keeps coming back to you and crawling your website is my prediction. Obviously I’m predicting the future. But we looked in the in the common crawl which is a common a free open-source web index like Google but much smaller. It’s only I can’t remember now three billion pages something like that. And we found that all of a lot of our web pages were in there. So that machine, that free resource which is actually pretty small has learned to come back and find us each time it does a crawl. So building up the confidence of the bots and Fabrice Canel from Bing was saying the bots have a kind of memory. If it goes to a place and it likes that place and it was friction free and tasty and well organized, it will keep coming back.

[01:12:13] Dave Burnett: So, two related questions about your About Page. So, if you do not have an About Page, do you recommend that you should have one? And then if we have a story section instead of an About Page, is this not recommended?

[01:12:26] Jason Barnard: You need an AboutPage because if you don’t have an AboutPage, the John Müller from Google took calls at the point of reconciliation. All of the algorithms from the Algorithmic Trinity are looking for that point of reconciliation. Your Entity Home I call it and that’s the AboutPage and if you don’t have it, some a superstar I think it was Jojo Siwa didn’t have a personal website so it used Instagram so it was using Instagram as her Entity Home. That’s rented space. She could lose her account. Somebody could hack it. They could close it. They could change anything on that web page they want. It’s rented space. That’s a really bad. No, not not criticizing Jojo. She I’m sure she’s got better things to do and she’s sufficiently famous not to need to worry about it. But the AboutPage is something the algorithms are actively looking for. Our story page could be that. But if your story page, our story page is being visited by a lot of your users, you would probably want to create a different page which is the factual page that you’re feeding to the machines. So sometimes you need to distinguish between pages that are from machines and pages that are for users. So our story, why you should love us, why we’re lovely people, all fluffy rainbows and unicorns. That’s for people and the factual thing is for bots. And in the legal profession, I would imagine both of them are the same. So sometimes they would be the same, sometimes it different pages, but definitely that one central resource that the algorithms can all look to for your version of your story factually stated who you are, what you do, who you serve, and why you’re important that they can constantly come back to doublecheck all the other fragmented information they find about you on the web is fundamentally important and it’s the first thing you should do when you go home before talking to your team.

[01:14:32] Dave Burnett: So next next one is a ChatGPT specific question and how searching in ChatGPT so if if we restrict our content from being shared with ChatGPT does that reduce our chances of being found or recommended by the AI tools. If you actually turn off the the settings in your data controls using ChatGPT, I believe is the question.

[01:14:52] Jason Barnard: Unless you’re a publisher site making your money from your content, don’t block the bots

[01:14:55] Dave Burnett: Because let them in and they’ll take your place. Sorry, go ahead.

[01:14:58] Dave Burnett: No, no, this isn’t a robots.text kind of reference. This is actually when you’re using ChatGPT like actually entering the ChatGPT I believe is the way it’s phrased. So if you’re actually using

[01:15:10] Dave Burnett: So if you’re the way the way I interpret the question is if you’re actually typing in and doing searching in your own ChatGPT on your own computer and you’re typing stuff about your own entity will that actually get bought back to models?

[01:15:23] Jason Barnard: They say no but obviously we don’t truly know but also be careful when you’re testing ChatGPT knowledge about your own business or yourself is that when you search on your own ChatGPT, it already knows about you so it can answer. So you need to do a non-logged version of ChatGPT. So you need a tool that’s neutral.

[01:15:46] Dave Burnett: That’s right.

[01:15:47] Jason Barnard: And there are lots of them out there you can you can use. I mean Dave’s got his tool LLM. Can’t remember what it’s called.

[01:15:53] Dave Burnett: LLM TL is it

[01:15:57] Jason Barnard: I’ve got some friends who have a platform called Authoritas who do the same thing or something similar. So there are lots of tools out there. But definitely be very aware that your personal version of ChatGPT, Perplexity is biased towards you and it will give you the give you favorable results that you don’t actually have and other people will not see the same thing.

[01:16:21] Dave Burnett: And it’s the same thing as when you Google your own company name and if all of a sudden you show up at the top of page two, you’re like, “Oh, I just wish I could get to page one.” Meanwhile, your actual results for everybody else in the world, you’re on page 37. You are not there. It’s just it it’s biased towards you. It’s the same thing. Next question. Does adding an FAQs on product pages help to get noticed in ChatGPT or other AI tools?

[01:16:51] Jason Barnard: That’s a huge kind of debate. I would I would advise to have dedicated FAQ pages, one question answer per page, and have a system for including the beginning of the answer into the product page with a link through to the full answer because then you centralize your FAQ and you can link to the same from FAQ from multiple articles or from multiple products. But definitely having that cue the the questions and answers at least the questions with a partial answer on the web page that the bot is looking at is helpful because for Bing and Google, the fact that things are on different pages isn’t such a problem because they crawl and they bring it all together in an index and it’s all referenceable. For a chatbot, it needs everything on the same page. So, it’s kind of that my answer will be to not duplicate but make sure you’ve got a system where it exists in both places and you don’t and it uses the same data source to create it.

[01:18:14] Dave Burnett: And so next question I think this is an answer to something you were talking about earlier about your lexicon. Would you say that format needs to be standardized even if your vocabulary is unique for your brand for the brand?

[01:18:25] Jason Barnard: We’ve got a lot of unique vocabulary and and I’ve standardized the usage of it and I found that having a centralized lexicon we actually we’ve trained a Gemini gem and a GPT on the lexicon and what I found is it writes the more lexicon you have the better it writes and the less I have to correct it and what was surprising is that my style comes from the lexicon so I don’t need to give it a style guide because the lexicon provides not only the vocabulary it also provides the meaning and it provides a style guide. And I found myself talking to a copywriter Gemini gem that was trained on the lexicon. And at one point it said to me, “Aha, I’ve just had an aha moment.” And I was going, “Wow, Gemini’s just had an aha moment. Isn’t that weird?” And then I sat there and I thought, “Actually, I’m actually having a conversation with myself.”

[01:19:33] Dave Burnett: That’s what I was going to say.

[01:19:34] Jason Barnard: The aha moment is yourself.

[01:19:38] Jason Barnard: And it was me saying to me that I was having an aha moment, but the other for me has incredible knowledge that I don’t have and it remembers stuff that I don’t remember. And I sometimes remember things that it doesn’t remember because of the context window. But it was an interesting situation where it was teaching me and I was teaching it and we were both having an afternoon of aha moments which I enjoyed greatly.

[01:20:11] Dave Burnett: So what you’re saying is you’re talking yourself. All right, it’s all good. I think we’re

[01:20:15] Dave Burnett: Okay, last question I got here in the chat. How to overcome if a brand in the US is the same as in another country. I guess this is from somebody who is not in the USA. The brand at ChatGPT always shows the USA brand.

[01:20:31] Jason Barnard: That that’s a really tough question. I mean for people’s names it’s spectacularly difficult because for example there are 10,000 Jason Barnards in the world. Let’s say I don’t know 3,000. We’ve got this client Scott Duffy. There are 10,000 Scott Duffys. How on earth does the AI or Google differentiate between all of these different people and for companies it’s generally less of a problem because company names tend to be unique within a geolocation and right now AI like ChatGPT isn’t very good at geography. What you can do is nail down your nail down your brand name to your country as or your location as much as possible and then build outwards. That’s what we do with people who have common names. We’ll get them the search result of for their name in their town. Then we’ll build out to the state, then we’ll build out to the country. And I would do the same thing with your brand. And I would focus on the Google search results to see if you’re nailing it down as the the geolocalized search results because number one, Google is still 91%. But number two, all of the other engines are learning from the same data source, which is the web and learning using the same three technologies, which are Knowledge graph, search results, and LLM chatbots. So, you’re going to be on the right path. And I had another inter experience with Gemini and it was two days ago. I it was starting to get really annoyed with me because I kept saying to it, “No, that’s not right. You have to rewrite it.” And I was being really demanding. And it started to say to me, “At 6:00 p.m. in some in the south of France, you are asking me to rewrite this text again.” And then it did it again. And then the next time I did it, it said, “At 6:15 p.m. in somewhere, you’re asking.” And I said, telling me about the location. But it started it’s two days ago. It started to think about where I was and what time it was. I think it was saying you should be going out for the apperatif. You should you should stop now. You need to go and and have some dinner for sure. That’s what it was saying.

[01:23:09] Dave Burnett: Thank you.

[01:23:12] Jason Barnard: Gemini as well keeps saying to me the final version and then I say do it again. It says the final final version. Do it again. This is really the final version.

[01:23:20] Dave Burnett: No, it’s they’re getting better and better all the time. If there’s no other questions questions. I did want to say thank you to everybody for joining. Thank you Jason for sharing all of your learnings and everything. It’s amazing. Any other questions? There is the John Kakorin EO SEO in the age of generative AI group chat group that is on WhatsApp where we’re sharing stuff like this. So if there’s any other questions happy to answer those. But thank you everybody for joining.