Jason Barnard, Kalicube: Taking Control of Your Brand Narrative in the AI Era
Published by: AI Risk Reward Podcast. Host: Alec Crawford Guest: Jason Barnard, Founder and CEO of Kalicube®. August 12, 2025
Listen here: Jason Barnard, Kalicube®: Taking Control of Your Brand Narrative in the AI Era
In the AI Risk Reward podcast, our host, Alec Crawford (@alec06830), Founder and CEO of Artificial Intelligence Risk, Inc. aicrisk.com, interviews guests about balancing the risk and reward of Artificial Intelligence for you, your business, and society as a whole. Podcast production and sound engineering by Troutman Street Audio. You can find them on LinkedIn and at troutmanstreetaudio.com. You can hear the difference.
Jason Barnard, CEO and founder of Kalicube, joins Alec Crawford to discuss his unconventional journey from musician and cartoon creator to a leading expert in Digital Brand Engineering. Barnard emphasizes the importance of controlling one’s digital footprint to shape the Digital Brand Echo that AI Assistive Engines perceive. The episode explores his personal transformation under mentor Itamar Morani, the challenges of AI-generated misinformation, and how to strategically position brands in an AI-driven world. Jason shares insights from his career, including his innovative approach, The Kalicube Process™, and the development of Kalicube’s powerful SaaS platform. The discussion also touches on the future of AI in marketing and the importance of maintaining human creativity and emotion in business.
Summary:
Guest Background: Jason Barnard is a former musician and cartoon creator turned CEO and founder of Kalicube, specializing in how brands are represented in an AI-first world.
Personal Branding: He discusses the critical role of a digital footprint in shaping a brand’s narrative in its Brand SERP and the AI Résumé that machines generate.
Mentorship Influence: Jason shares how Itamar Morani helped him transition from a hands-on creator to an effective CEO.
AI Challenges: Concerns about AI’s role in spreading misinformation and the importance of establishing a single source of truth (an Entity Home).
Future of AI in Marketing: Jason outlines how AI Assistive Engines create a Conversational Acquisition Funnel, guiding consumers and why brands must become Top of Algorithmic Mind to be recommended.
Companies/Organizations:
- Kalicube®
- Kajabi
- Microsoft
- ChatGPT
- DeepSeek
- Gemini
- Copilot
- Artificial Intelligence Risk, Inc.
Books:
- Confucius from the Heart
Movies:
- Cool Runnings
- Some Like It Hot
TV Shows:
- IT Crowd
Jason Barnard’s Unlikely Path From Economics Student To Musician
[00:00:00] Alec Crawford: I am your host, Alec Crawford, founder and CEO of Artificial Intelligence Risk Inc. And this is AI Risk Reward, a podcast about balancing the risk and reward of using AI personally, professionally, and as a large organization. We will discuss hot topics such as, will AI take my job or make it better? When I ask ChatGPT work questions- is that even safe? From an ethical perspective, is it enough for big companies to anonymize private data before using it? Probably not. I’m discussing these issues with AI experts to answer burning questions and stay ahead of the curve on AI. I’d also like to give a shout out to our podcast producer and audio and sharing team at Troutman Street Audio. You can check them out on LinkedIn.
Our guest this week is Jason Barnard. CEO and founder of Kalicube®, and the theme is controlling your brand narrative on AI, but start with, how does a musician end up getting into economics? How does a hockey player for the French championship also become a handball player on the English Championship team?
Listen and find out. Hi everyone. It’s Alec Crawford, your host for the AI Risk Reward Podcast, and our very special, multi-talented guest this week is Jason Barnard, CEO and founder of Kalicube®. Welcome Jason.
[00:01:29] Jason Barnard: Thank you, Alec. It’s absolutely delightful to be here.
[00:01:34] Alec Crawford: That is so fabulous and fabulous to have you here.
And of course, I’m just gonna kick this off with a not quite random question, which is, how does a musician end up getting a degree in economics?
[00:01:47] Jason Barnard: It’s the other way around. How does somebody with a degree in economics become a musician? And actually I moved to Liverpool to take my degree in economics because it was the easiest degree I could find.
Apparently Liverpool and Harvard are very much the same for that. According to you, Alec.
[00:02:05] Alec Crawford: Yes, totally true.
[00:02:07] Jason Barnard: Economics is the easiest subject you can take, and I’m a guitar player who said, do you want to play in a band? And we formed a band together. And what was wonderful is I suddenly became a musician when I had never been a musician before.
Jason Barnard On Playing Championship Sports And Finding Strength In Confucius
[00:02:25] Alec Crawford: Wow. That’s super, super cool. And then another part of your background I noticed is that you played hockey for the French champions and heyball for the English champions. So how did that happen?
[00:02:37] Jason Barnard: Yeah that’s kind of a bit cheaty if you pick the sport that the country is the worst at.
You get to play for a really good team, even though you’re not very good. So the English are very bad at handball. So I got a place with the English champions and the French are very good at handball. So when I moved to France, I played field hockey. The French are very bad at field hockey. So I got a place on the champions team, so I actually played for the national Champions of the UK and France for different sports by choosing the sport that country was really bad at.
[00:03:16] Alec Crawford: Yeah. Well, I mean, I remember, Cool Runnings, the Jamaican Bobsled team movie. Which was pretty funny as well, right? Like, oh, we’re choosing from five people in the entire country, basically right. That’s pretty funny.
[00:03:30] Jason Barnard: So you can imagine that for me with handball and hockey.
[00:03:34] Alec Crawford: I’m gonna wait for the movie. I’m gonna wait. It’s not Spinal Tap or waiting for Guffman, but, you know, it could be funny. Okay. And then, you know, you had mentioned a book which, , which you said this book saved my life, , Confucius from the Heart. So pitch our audience on the book.
[00:03:55] Jason Barnard: I was in a really bad place for multiple reasons and it gave me an approach to life that made me feel comfortable with myself.
A lot of the stuff Confucius says is out of date, but there’s a huge amount in there that helps you feel very much confident and comfortable in yourself, who you are and your relationship with the rest of the world. And it really helped me, it pulled me out of the biggest, deepest hole that I’ve been in.
Jason Barnard On Building A Career Without Ever Having A Traditional Job
[00:04:34] Alec Crawford: Everybody ends up in a hole sooner or later. So that’s a great book to know about. So you come out of school with your degree in economics, you’re playing in a band all over the place. What was your first kind of legit job then at that point?
[00:04:55] Jason Barnard: I’ve never had a proper job.
Literally, I’ve never had a nine to five job in my entire life. And I can’t imagine what it would be like. I mean, at my age now, 59, I’m looking at the world and I’m thinking, well, if anybody did ever employ me, I would be unbearable.
Yes. Well, there’s no structure. I do what I need to do. I move forwards the way I need to move forwards. I was an economist doing my degree. Then I was in a band, professional. But we just played gigs and I organized gigs and I traveled Europe playing gigs. Then I made cartoons. And I created my own company to do that.
And now I have Kalicube, which is my current company. I’ve always been my own boss and I’ve always managed to make a living without having a proper job.
Jason Barnard On The Mentorship That Helped Him Shift From Builder To CEO
[00:05:53] Alec Crawford: Yeah. Perfect. So you did mention, a mentor Itamar Marani. So tell us about Itamar.
[00:06:02] Jason Barnard: Yeah. He’s the most recent mentor in that he has helped me move from being.
The guy who builds everything. The guy who understands how Google and AI function, how they think, how they represent brands, how we can manipulate them to represent ourselves and our companies the way we want to become the CEO of a company with people who actually make that happen. And that’s huge.
Moving from the doer to the overseer, the visionary maybe, is a huge huge move forwards to me. And the other thing he taught me was to remove the emotion from business, which I’ve been very bad at.
[00:06:53] Alec Crawford: Super hard for anyone to do that if they’ve owned their own company for a while.
It’s just. Super hard.
How Jason Barnard Transformed A Branding Challenge Into A Global Solution
[00:06:59] Jason Barnard: Hundred percent. Kalicube® is my baby. UpToTen was my previous company. That was my baby. WTPL Music was the company before that. That was my baby. And I got caught out in both the first two companies and now Kalicube® is my baby, but it’s a pragmatic business baby, and what I’m doing in my own world, which is understanding how Google and AI understand brands and how we can manipulate, change, refocus these algorithms is a different question. How do we make money from that is Kalicube®.
[00:07:41] Alec Crawford: Yep. Yeah. Totally makes sense. Well, it makes sense to talk about the origin story of Kalicube®. So you’ve got these three companies.
Music related videos for the one to 10 crowd. And then moving on to Kalicube®, what was the transition there like? ‘Cause those are obviously pretty different things. What was the light bulb moment that made you wanna start Kalicube®?
[00:08:05] Jason Barnard: Well, with UpToTen, I got too emotionally involved because I was the blue dog in the cartoon that UpToTen was making most of its money from.
And I didn’t really separate the business from the character and my own input, my emotional investment in that character. So when I exited the company, I needed a new start and I moved into digital marketing. But when people searched my name, they would find Jason Barnard as a cartoon blue dog.
It cost me so many deals. People that I talk to face saying, yeah, okay, let’s do a deal. This is $10,000 a month, Jason. You’re gonna manage our digital marketing strategy. And they would suddenly disappear.
[00:08:58] Alec Crawford: Because Jason Barnard is a blue cartoon dog.
[00:09:01] Jason Barnard: Exactly. So I sat down one day and I thought, okay, I can change this. I can make Google show me the way I want. And I got it to show me as an entrepreneur, CEO, and digital marketer. And then I realized everybody has this problem. This is a universal problem that I can solve. So I founded Kalicube® and built Kalicube Pro™, which is a SaaS Platform with 3 billion data points. Algorithms I’ve written a tech layer that we’ve built out that educates AI from the outside about who you are, what you do, who you serve, and why you’re a credible solution.
How Kalicube Reshaped The Online Narratives Of Scott Duffy And Jonathan Cronstedt
[00:09:42] Alec Crawford: Yeah, sounds pretty cool. That’s great. Are there examples of clients you can give us if you’re allowed to.
[00:09:54] Jason Barnard: Well this guy here, Scott Duffy came to us and said, well, there’s another guy called Scott Duffy who has a million students on Udemy. I want to dominate that Scott Duffy and I sold a company to Richard Brandson I would like that to show up when people Google my name. We made that happen for him.
He’s our longest serving client. So Scott Duffy is a great example. Jonathan Cronstedt from Kajabi, president of Kajabi came to us and said, well, actually, you know, I built Kajabi to be this multi-billion dollar company. But I don’t want to be known for Kajabi. I wanna be known as a business strategist and an investor.
Can you help make sure that Google and AI present me as a business strategist and an investor rather than the president of Kajabi? We made that happen for him. So those are two great examples of personal brands that we’ve pivoted.
How Controlling Your Digital Footprint Shapes The Way Google And AI Represent Your Brand
[00:10:55] Alec Crawford: That’s great. Well, look, I mean what’s interesting to me is if a few years ago you went to a 10-year-old and said, hey tell me about the Magna Carta. What are they gonna do? They’re going to Google Magna Carta, and then they’re going to get the answer. You go to a 10-year-old today, they’re not going to Google. They’re actually going to ChatGPT or Gemini, or maybe Perplexity or Claude, and asking that same question and getting the answer.
So I’m sure something similar is going on with branding. Where you can’t just put out some Google ads and hope for the best, right? Like, now you have to figure out how to get AI to properly represent your band. So talk a little bit about that. How should we strategize around that?
[00:11:52] Jason Barnard: Which is a great question. I came at this from 2012 for my own Google Business Card. You searched my name. It said Jason Barnard is a cartoon blue dog. That was a problem. I changed that to Jason Barnard is an entrepreneur, CEO, and leading digital marketer. The fact is that in order to make that happen, I had to change my digital footprint.
By changing my digital footprint, I changed the focus of Google and when ChatGPT came out in 2022, ChatGPT got it. ChatGPT was saying the same thing, then Perplexity, then DeepSeek, then AI mode in Google. And the fact is that all of these machines are looking at your digital footprint to understand who you are, what you do, who you serve, and why you’re credible.
So if you can control your digital footprint, which you can, you can control how these machines represent you and in fact, how they amplify you. Because if I can convince ChatGPT, DeepSeek, Google AI mode, Gemini, Copilot, that I am the world expert in Google Knowledge Panels, the world expert in Online Reputation Management, the world expert in Personal Brand Management in AI.
They will amplify my voice to people who are interested in those topics, and that’s exactly what I’ve done.
Why Taking Control Of Your Brand Narrative Is The Only Defense Against AI-Generated Fake News
[00:13:21] Alec Crawford: That totally makes sense. And now a word from our sponsor. Artificial Intelligence Risk Inc. Accelerates adoption of gen AI safely. They provide the governance, risk, compliance, and cybersecurity platform that financial, healthcare, and other regulated organizations need.
Before they can use Gen AI safely and in compliance with regulatory requirements, their software has won. Number one, awards for cybersecurity and compliance from Waters technology. Find them @aicrisk.com. So, shifting gears a little bit, what concerns you about AI in general not just for marketing
[00:14:01] Jason Barnard: The amount of junk. That’s now being created. I think three years in, we’re really starting to suffer from an overpopulation of junk that doesn’t make sense, that doesn’t help, that doesn’t resonate, and people trying to take advantage. And I would hope that Instagram, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Chat GPT will be able to take some kind of control of that, but it’s difficult to see quite how they’re gonna be able to do it.
[00:14:36] Alec Crawford: Yeah, that sounds difficult. There are so many problems that the casual user doesn’t even see or know about.
I remember there was an article stating that, and again, I don’t know if it’s true or not, that Facebook had basically become the message board for child trafficking.
Right.
[00:15:01] Jason Barnard: Yeah.
[00:15:01] Alec Crawford: And of course I’m sure they’re trying to do something about it, but probably have not solved the problem, I would imagine.
[00:15:09] Jason Barnard: With AI that’s the, for me, the whole point is if you can take control today, you’ve got a good chance in the future. And if you don’t take control of your brand, personal, corporate, or product brand today in the future, how on earth are you going to change these things when they’ve got it wrong?
[00:15:29] Alec Crawford: Yeah , I heard a story about a very large, very famous beverage company, and someone created a basically fake video of them closing down a production facility near in the us near the border of Mexico, and claimed that they had fired a bunch of Mexicans and ship them back over the borders.
Like none of this was true, by the way. This is all completely made up. Cool. And it went viral, literally to the point where you had Mexicans boycotting this beverage brand and they kind of never recovered from that with that particular audience. Because whether or not it’s true or not, it’s kind of now part of their psyche or whatever you want to call it. But I think part of the problem was it just kind of got out of control before the company had any idea it was even happening. Yeah. So along the lines of that story in digital marketing, what should companies be worried about and what can they do about a situation like that where fake news generated by AI maybe is going viral.
[00:16:55] Jason Barnard: That’s a kind of very specific, very difficult problem to deal with because it goes so fast and it’s so widespread. What you need to do as a normal sized brand who isn’t a huge international beverage brand, as you said, is take control of your brand narrative today.
Make sure that the AI understands which website represents your brand, personal, or corporate, because that’s the only way you’ll have any kind of control. What all of the AI is looking for is. Where is the single source of truth from the person or the corporation about the person or the corporation, and that is key because that is where they will look for your version of the truth, and that is your only hope of any kind of control.
[00:17:53] Alec Crawford: Yep. That totally makes sense. Yeah. And what, what the AI appears to be doing is going to kind of pretty basic spots like LinkedIn or corporate websites and things like that. You know, it’s not scraping through Reddit, looking for rumors or something like that at the start, at least unless you tell it to.
And in terms of going back to AI Do you think that AI can truly replicate human creativity in the future?
[00:18:26] Jason Barnard: I’d love to think not. And what I’ve seen so far makes me think no. What it can’t do is replicate what I did on Saturday, which is a friend of mine who owns the jazz club opposite said, come and play guitar and sing a song in front of a lot of local people. I did that. Everybody danced. Everybody was clapping, everybody was singing. It was completely improvised. It was delightful. Everybody’s very happy. AI can’t do that, and I think that’s possibly where our human
relationships and the human feeling and the human creativity will be saved is, one-on-one live real relationships.
Jason Barnard On How AI Is Reshaping The Acquisition Funnel And The Best Advice He’s Received As A Business Owner
[00:19:20] Alec Crawford: Yeah. And how do you view AI , and we’re really talking about it from a corporate standpoint, right? Like how do you envision marketing, sales, branding evolving over the next few years? With AI ’cause obviously, look AI, AI today is the worst it will ever be.
Right? Yeah. In the future going forward. Right. So just curious about your thoughts there.
[00:19:51] Jason Barnard: Yeah, I think we need to look at AI ChatGPT, Google AI Mode, Microsoft Copilot as the funnel. It’s the acquisition funnel. It’s a conversation between a machine and a person where the machine guides the person down the acquisition funnel, and that machine is the trusted advisor.
It’s the biggest influencer we will ever know. Trillions of conversations with billions of people everyday, and those people trust the machine. So if you as a marketer, consider that you need to feed these machines with your funnel. And make yourself top of algorithmic mind, ie, the first company or person the machine thinks about when somebody’s asking about a question or a problem you can solve, then you can win the game. But if you start thinking, I need people to visit my website, you’re going to lose.
[00:20:48] Alec Crawford: Yeah. That totally makes sense to me. So that seems like very good advice. How about the best advice you’ve gotten as a business owner times three.
[00:21:01] Jason Barnard: I got the advice that I need to separate my emotions from the company. That the company is one thing and it’s a very pragmatic beast, and that if I treat it like a pragmatic beast that needs to be fed needs to be protected and that my emotions just get in the way. If I can put my emotions, identify my emotions, and put them to one side, make that pragmatic decision that serves the company, everything’s going to be much better.
And my emotions, I keep them for my personal life, for playing music in front of my friends across the street. The company is a pragmatic business entity. That I need to prioritize and protect when I’m working in the company. And my emotions need to be left at the door. Very difficult to do, but when you do it, the company goes much better.
Jason Barnard Shares Why Paris And The South Of France Are Worth The Experience
[00:21:59] Alec Crawford: Yeah, great advice. Absolutely. Great advice. Now of course, you’re living in the South of France now, so you’re obviously not retired, you’re still working, but how about a little advice about France? Like where should people visit, what should people do? This sounds like you’re having a great time there.
[00:22:22] Jason Barnard: Yeah. Paris is brilliant. Paris is full of life. Some people can be rude, but that’s true of any big city. So I think turning up in Paris and saying all French people are rude is unfair because people are rude in any major city. Paris is worth the effort and I would spend the time or make the effort to spend the time there to truly get into the life of Paris over five or six days because it’s beautiful, it’s fun, there’s a lot going on. And then if you come to the South of France where I am, Nim or paleo, it’s sunshine, great food, great wine, great cheese, very friendly people, lots going on. And yeah, no, I’m not retired, but it feels a little bit like it.
How Mispronouncing Your Name Can Confuse Google And AI
[00:23:11] Alec Crawford: That’s awesome. Now, at the start of our show, we had a chat about the pronunciation of your last name, Barnard..
And you said it was very important, the pronunciation. So tell the audience that story
[00:23:26] Jason Barnard: That’s because AI and Google will suck in the audio from this podcast. They will misunderstand if you don’t say my name correctly. And there’s a guy called Jason, BER, and Google constantly confuses me with that person because people don’t say my name correctly.
So I used to say, I don’t mind how you say my name, because I literally don’t mind, but Google and AI do. It has to be Barnard.. and it has to be very clear.
[00:24:01] Alec Crawford: Wow, that is super, super wild. So far when you search for me on various things, I show up, but if you had searched 10 years ago, it would’ve been the footballer Alec Crawford, or there’s also a newscaster Alec Crawford.
But now I have gotten my ranking above them.
[00:24:20] Jason Barnard: Brilliant. And that’s one of the huge problems that AI and Google have is when I say Alec Crawford, who do I mean?
[00:24:29] Alec Crawford: Yeah, you have to, you have to say Alec Crawford from Connecticut, or CEO of AI risk or whatever, and then you’ll get the right one. And so to figure out the three of us, you have to say football or journalist, or AI person basically, and you’ll get the right one, but at least it’s obvious that we’re different people.
That’s the good news.
[00:24:48] Jason Barnard: That is very good news, because that isn’t as obvious as people would imagine. That ambiguity of people’s names is a huge problem for Google and for AI.
How Kalicube Helps Entrepreneurs Control And Amplify Their Personal Brand In Google And AI
[00:24:58] Alec Crawford: Yeah, exactly. Excellent. So we’re gonna head into the last section of the show, which is called Underrated or Overrated.
But first I think if you want to talk a little bit more about Kalicube® and what you do, that would be great I think.
[00:25:20] Jason Barnard: We help people take control of their personal brand narrative in Google and AI. And we help them to amplify whatever work they’re doing on their personal brand through Google and AI
Because as I said earlier, Google and AI are the biggest influencers in the world. People use them because they trust them. They’re having trillions of conversations with billions of people every day. And if you want to reach your ideal audience, the best way is to get Google, ChatGPT, Microsoft Copilot, to recommend you as the best solution to the problem.
So we mold and create the personal brand that entrepreneurs need to be front and center at the critical moment when Google and AI are about to recommend the best solution to the problem that person can solve.
Jason Barnard Plays Underrated Or Overrated And Final Thoughts
[00:26:15] Alec Crawford: Excellent. All right, so Underrated or Overrated. Let’s start off with living in the South of France.
Underrated or Overrated?
[00:26:23] Jason Barnard: Absolutely honest. Everybody says it’s brilliant and it is.
[00:26:30] Alec Crawford: Okay. The show IT crowd.
[00:26:36] Jason Barnard: Absolutely. Perfect. Everybody says it’s brilliant and it is.
[00:26:40] Alec Crawford: Yeah great TV show. I’m not sure where it’s streaming now though, if you happen to know offhand.
[00:26:47] Jason Barnard: Um, not off the top of my head, but I’ve watched it so many times.
I don’t need to see it. Yeah, it’s streaming. I could probably cite every script.
[00:26:54] Alec Crawford: All right. We’ll track that down and put it in the show notes. , watching live jazz music. Underrated or overrated.
[00:27:02] Jason Barnard: Absolutely. Right there in the middle. Perfect. People say it’s brilliant and it is brilliant.
[00:27:10] Alec Crawford: Yeah. Getting your daily baguette while you’re in Paris.
Underrated or overrated?
[00:27:19] Jason Barnard: The thing is I keep saying the same thing. It’s exactly what people think it is. It’s brilliant. You get the smell of the baguette and you crush it between your fingers and it goes and it feels. So good. And it smells so delicious.
[00:27:35] Alec Crawford: Yeah, it’s definitely you feel like a French person for a day when you’re doing that.
Alright, we’ll, switching gears, we’ll go to, , Milton Friedman as an economist, underrated or overrated.
[00:27:48] Jason Barnard: Overrated. I hate him. I can’t bear what he was saying. And he ruined the world economy.
[00:27:54] Alec Crawford: Yeah, he didn’t do such a great job. Oh, well, sorry, Milton. Paying for Google ads. Underrated or overrated?
[00:28:05] Jason Barnard: Mistake, generally speaking, Google. Don’t do you any favors?
[00:28:10] Alec Crawford: Yeah. Visiting the city of Bordeaux, France. Underrated or overrated?
[00:28:19] Jason Barnard: Underrated, if you love wine. Overrated, if you love jazz music.
[00:28:24] Alec Crawford: Oh, that’s good. I like that. Escargot, also known as snails with butter and garlic. Underrated or overrated.
[00:28:34] Jason Barnard: Overrated by the French, underrated by everybody else.
[00:28:39] Alec Crawford: And last but not least, the movie, “Some Like it Hot.”
[00:28:45] Jason Barnard: Underrated. Best movie ever in the entire universe, simply because I was not a double bass player. I was a singer and I saw some like it hot and the next day, somebody said to me, if you want to be in our band, you need to play the double bass.
And I’d just seen Jack Lemon, how happy he looked playing the double bass. So I bought a double bass and it changed my entire life.
[00:29:10] Alec Crawford: Wow, amazing. A movie that changes your life. Awesome. Jason, thank you for coming on the show. This has been Jason Barnard, CEO, and founder of Kalicube®, thanks for coming on the show.
[00:29:24] Jason Barnard: Brilliant. Thank you so much, Alec.
[00:29:27] Alec Crawford: You are listening to the AI Risk Reward Podcast with your host, Alec Crawford. You can find us anywhere you listen to podcasts. For example, Apple Podcasts. Production and Sound Engineering by Troutman Street Audio. You can find them on LinkedIn. Please like, subscribe, and comment.